Mahkamah Tinggi Jenayah 3 KL
Di hadapan Yang Arif Dato’ Mohamad Zabidin Mohd Diah
Pihak-pihak:-
PP : Semua hadir
PB : SN, Ram Karpal (KS, Datuk Param Cumaraswamy, Dato’ CV Prabhakaran, Marissa, Radzlan tidak hadir)
WB : Zambri Idrus (for Complainant)
Expert for defence: Dr. Brian McDonalds
AI hadir
[9.00 a.m.]
MY: Pihak-pihak seperti semalam. Hari ini ditetapkan untuk sambung pemeriksaan utama SP5 oleh NB.
SN: I would like to apply from the court for my chamering student to sit with us for the purpose of observation.
SP5 mengangkat sumpah di dalam Bahasa Inggeris.
YA: Bagi particulars sekali lagi.
SP5: Seah Lay Hong. Forensic scientist in Department of Chemistry Malaysia in Petaling Jaya. 52 years old.
Q: You informed yesterday that you are attached at Chemist Department PJ since 1991.
A: Yes.
Q: And your current designation is the Head of Serious Crime Unit.
A: Yes.
Q: Please tell the court what are your functions and duties as the Head of Serious Crime Unit in your department.
A: As the Head of the Serious Crime Unit, my main function is to undertake and supervise the analysis of serious crime cases like murder and sexual assault and kidnapping and drug trafficking that requires DNA
identification.
Q: Do you yourself conduct examination and analysis?
A: Yes, I do.
Q: And what kind of analysis and examination you conduct in line of your duty?
A: My examination is mainly on the biological fluids and biological stains and the DNA typing of the fluid stains and tissues.
Q: Please inform the court as to your academic qualification.
A: I have a Bachelor of Science (Hons) in Chemistry. I have a Masters of Medical Science and I have a PhD in Forensic DNA.
Q: Please state the courses that you have attended in relation to your work, locally as well as abroad?
A: YA, I’ve prepared my CV. May I tender my CV which list out all the courses I have attended?
YA: You have to give it orally.
A: [read CV] I first undergone training in Forensic DNA Profiling in 1994 at the Institut of Science, Forensic and Medicine in Singapore. Since then I have attended seminars, conferences, workshops on DNA and Forensic
Genetics. I’ve attended seminar, conferences and workshops both locally and the international conferences. The conferences and seminars which I attended are dated back to 1995 which is 11th Interpol Forensic Symposium at
Lyon, France. In 1998 at the International Symposium in Forensic Sciences at Adelaide, Australia. In 1999 at the International Congress of the International Society of Forensic Genetics in Sans Francisco in USA. In 2000 at the
15th International Symposium of the Forensic Sciences in Gold Coast, Australia. In 2001 at the 19th International Congress of the International Society for Forensic Genetics at Munster, Germany. In 2001 at the 2nd European []
Course on [] and Forensic Genetics at Croatia. In October 2002 at the Hugo Pacific Meeting at the [] Pacific Conference of Forensic Genetics in the Pattaya, Thailand. In 2003 at the 20th International Congress of the International
Society of Forensic Genetics in Bordeaux, France. Also at the local Health and Science Conference in 2006 in Penang. And also in the same year in Hungary, Budhapest at the 2nd International Tendem Repeats [] Workshop on
Bio[] Genetics and Functionality of Microsatelite. In 2008 at the [] Meeting of the International Association of Forensic Sciences. [] . Local symposium in 2009 which is hosted by Jabatan Kimia Malaysia in conjunction with our
100th years celebration which is in PWTC.
Q: Apart from the courses, are you a member of any professional bodies relating to your work?
A: Yes, I am. member of Institut Kimia Malaysia. I am also a member of International Society for Forensic Genetics and also a member of Malaysian Forensic Science Society.
Q: Have you ever attended any proficiency test in your profession?
A: Yes, I have. In fact this is a requirement for our laboratory analyst are required to passed and undertake at least two proficiency test per year.
Q: What are the test?
A: It is a test which is provided by the proficiency test provider, international PT provider. It is known as CTS, Collaborative Testing Services which is recognised as PT provider for accredited laboratories and that test is
provided to test the proficiency of the analyst in serological and DNA testing.
Q: Are the test accepted internationally by all the scientist in the world in the area of your work?
A: Yes. This is one of the recommended PT test for accredited laboratories.
Q: Before you are posted in your present department, were you attached to any other department?
A: Yes. I was at the toxicology laboratory before being placed in the DNA section and that is in 1994. Since that I am with the DNA section.
Q: Have you testified before in court?
A: Yes, I have.
Q: How many times have you testified in court?
A: Probably an average of about 10 times a year.
Q: And to the best of your knowledge, has your testimony being accepted by the court?
A: I do not receive feedbacks from any court case that I gave testimony too. But those feedbacks that I had received were those accepted by the court.
Q: In your line of work as a forensic scientist, do you have the experience in analysing the samples as well as seminal fluid or seminal stain?
A: Yes, I have.
Q: Is there a DNA lab at the Chemist Department that you are attached to
A: Yes. Accredited DNA laboratory at the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia headquaters in PJ.
Q: Is the DNA lab and the equipment in the Chemist Department similar with those in other parts of the world?
A: Yes. The facilities, equipment and the test system in the department and in the laboratory of the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia here is of international standards.
Q: Have your lab being accredited internationally?
A: Yes. It has been accredited to the ASCLD (American Society for Crime Laboratory Directors) lab since 2005
Q: What does this accreditation signifies?
A: The accreditation signifies that the laboratory and the test system is personal, its methods and procedures has passed and reached internationally accepted standard..
Q: Are the scientist in the same line of your work adopt the same standard used by your department in relation to DNA analysis?
A: Yes. The international laboratory that are accredited have the same standard as adopted by the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia.
Q: How many times have you conducted DNA analysis since you are attached at the Chemist Department on the request by the police or other government agencies?
A: On the average, I received about 5-10 forensic cases per month. And each case usually composed about 10-20 exhibits, and sometimes more. So, on the average that should be about 100-200 samples a month.
Q: And in cases involving the request by the police, what are the types of cases that need DNA analysis?
A: In fact, today every case that requires an identification would require DNA analysis.
Q: Were you working on 30th June 2008?
A: Yes.
Q: Were you also working on 1st July 2008?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you on these dates, 30th June 2008 and 1st July 2008 received a request from the police?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Were the request accompanied by POL 31?
A: Yes, it was accompanied by a police request form.
NB: Dengan izin YA, pada peringkat ini saya ingin merujuk saksi kepada 2 borang POL 31. Pertama, borang POL 31 bertarikh 30.06.2008. Maafkan saya, YA. Pertama sekali saya ingin merujuk saksi kepada ID24 iaitu borang
POL 31 bertarikh 28.08.2008.
SN: Can we have the DPP to talk in English as Dr. Brian is unable to follow.
Q: Please inform the court, is this the form POL 31 that you received on 30th June 2008?
A: Yes. This is the form I received on 30.06.2008
Q: You notice the date in this form?
A: Yes. I noted the date. There must have been an error on the date.
Q: But you confirm that this is the form that you received on 30.06.2008?
A: Yes, this is the form.
NB: With permission of the court, may I have ID24 be marked as P24.
ID24 is marked as P24.
Q: Apart this POL 31 that you received on 30.06.2008, did you received any other form of POL 31 on the same date, 30th June 2008?
A: Yes, I did. There was another form, but the form is not for DNA analysis.
NB: May I refer the witness to another form POL 31 also dated 28.06.2008.
Q: Would you be able to identify this form as received by you as well on 30th June 2008?
A: Yes. This was the other form which was given together.
Q: Did you notice the date again?
A: 28 June 2008
Q: But you confirmed you received this on 30.06.2008?
A: Yes.
Q: And this is as regards to a package marked as B12?
A: Yes, B12.
Q: Did you received B12 on this date?
A: I received on this date another envelope of B11.
Q: B11 or B12?
A: B12.
Q: But it was stated here B12?
A: B12.
Q: What happened, Dr. Seah?
A: That was rectified by submitting officer to be B11.
Q: The rectification was done before you?
A: Yes, before me.
NB: YA, if you look at this, the original copy has been tendered in court where there is this alteration to B11. The alteration is only reflected in the original copy.
YA: Get the witness yang mana the rectification is.
Q: Is this the original copy you have received on that day?
A: Yes, this is the original copy.
Q: Is there an alteration there?
A: Yes. There’s an alteration from B12 to B11.
Q: On what page?
A: Page 1 and page 2 of POL 31 form.
Q: So, the alteration was done on the first page as well as the second page?
A: Yes.
Q: And these alteration was done before you?
A: Yes. It was rectified before me.
NB: If there is no objection from the counsel, may we have the document be marked as…
RK: We have to object because the copy of the document is different from what we received under S.51A before.
YA: So. You are objecting because S.51A has not been complied with?
RK: Yes. we’ve been supplied with the a different document from the one that is going to be tendered. And the rectification wass not done by this witness. It cannot be marked through this witness.
YA: But you concede that a copy has been submitted?
RK: A copy which is different from what we received.
YA: The difference is the rectification? This is different?
RK: Yes.
MY: I believe this is something beyond that. This document is only opened before the court. [] . What is important is that there was a chemist report. []. We are in no better condition that []. It is not that we are trying to
suppress the evidence from the court or from the defence. With regard to whether or not [], it was made in here presence. This fulfil the requirement of S.60 of EA. I believe there should be no objection. Perhaps later my learned
friend can make submission as to the weight of the document if there is any doubt as regard to what this witness testify. But till then I see no [] for the exhibit to be marked.
RK: This document is rectify before this witness. In a situation where MY lf says it is just opened now, it is rectify already.
YA: If you understand, what they meant is that the prosecution get the document only in court..
RK: They rectified it already. And copies made. And they opened it without being rectified. The rectification was made before the witness.
YA: Copies were made by the prosecution, not her.
RK: No. A copy of which she had rectified before her.
YA: So, you are saying that the prosecution also must have the rectified copy?
RK: Of course, because that is what she saw. If the rectification was done before this witness, the rectification must be ready before it is opened in court. This doesn’t go to weight. It goes to the admissibility. That is why we
have to object.
YA: Now you are objecting because of the S.51A?
RK: Yes. That is one of the reason.
YA: But, what is the effect of non-compliance of S.51A?
RK: We have not being supplied with the document as required by the law. Then the document can’t be admitted. That is the effect of it.
YA: Under the CPC I don’t see any provision when it is not supplied, it does not mean it cannot be admissible. Any provision of the CPC?
RK: The effect of it at this point in time is we have to be given document which are going to be used or proposed to be used by the prosecution. The document before us which the prosecution proposed to admit now through
this witness is different from the one supplied to us. It is quite material because it goes to the chain of exhibits. It is just not a minor rectification or a slip. I wouldn’t waste the court’s time if it was. This is major. It goes to the chain
of exhibits. Hence the reason we have to object. S.51A is very clear. We have to be given what is being used. What we have been given is not what is being used.
YA: What is the effect of S.51A?
RK: What we have been given is not what they proposed to use now. I think that is clear.
YA: Okay. Assuming that is correct.
RK: It must be correct.
YA: What is the effect now?
RK: What we have been given is not what they proposed to use now. It cannot be admitted.
YA: That’s the problem. Which provision states that cannot be marked?
RK: It is implied under S.51A itself. Because what has been given can be marked. We’ve not being given what is proposed to be admitted.
YA: In S.51A, it doesn’t state when it has to be given.
RK: Obviously before the trial. That’s why we have been given quite reluctantly all the document by the prosecution. Even that, not all.
SN: The maker who did the alteration is the police officer. That is why this is not in proper order. Also there has been some changing in the markings. [] . All this will be an issue.
RK: As I say this is very material as it goes to the chain of evidence. It is very very material. What she received an all.
MY: I know of one case years ago cited by Zawawi JC then with regard to S.51A. But the issue is different where the prosecution did not supply document earlier on, before the trial. The issue is whether or not they were being
precluded from being tendered and marked. Zawawi J said there is no bar to it. In fact, the position in UK is exactly that, that those document not supplied before the trial will still be supplied until and unless it prejudices. It’s too late
at that time. But there’s nothing of that sort in this particular case. Here, what we are adducing through this witness is this is the document that she received and altered before her.
YA: One of the issue raised by them is if it is altered, that mean when the prosecution received the copy which had been altered. And when you made copies to be submitted to them, the alteration must be there already. That
is what they are saying.
MY: We made copies of the document received by us, not the one opened. Because that is the original and we hardly open it. Because normally they supplied [] copies of the report. But the POL 31 is the one that she
received, not we received. We did not received the POL 31. We received the chemist report.
YA: So, the one you received was the POL31 from the police, not from her?
MY: No. And this is not the issue. It is about the toxicology report. At the end of the day, as KS had raised before, we have not supplied the defence with the toxicology report.
YA: So, why do you want to make it here?
MY: []. But at the end of the day, I’m not really concerned of this because it is not part of our case.
YA: Why make life difficult? Take it out then.
MY: But, this is the law. []
RK: So, is my learned friend proposed not to admit the document? If that is the case, then none of this will be arising.
YA: They insist on putting in. I don’t know.
MY: When the police officer gives evidence, he has to say how many exhibits that they sent. Together with the POL 31. Still you have to explain why is it there is B12 when there is 11. Whether or not it is written there or by
oral evidence, this evidence will come out. We are not really dependent on this particular alteration that now Dr. Seah is testifying. []. At the end of the day, only oral evidence matters. []. I believe the court has to make a ruling
whether or not there is something wrong here. But now we are talking about technicality. What we received is different from what there where the alteration is not reflected. Whether or not that is fatal, that is the issue. [].
RK: I think my learned friend was referring to the case of Awaluddin. But in any event, the Federal Court in DSAI case has imposed an obligation on the prosecution under S.51A to supply this material.
YA: That is admitted.
RK: Then, without a doubt Awaluddin talks about whether it is prejudiced or not. We are certainly prejudiced because of the chain of exhibits. Whether it goes to the toxicology report or other [], because it is part of the chain.
Having form part of the chain, it must be properly proved. My learned friend can’t take one part of the chain and prove it. A rope cannot make a full rope without its strands being tied together. What we are saying here is it has to be
not admitted under S.51A. That’s an obligation. Unless my learned friend proposed not to proceed with this case. The prosecution is not relying on this part of it. If that’s the case, why make life difficult? Abandon it.
SN: YA, this is fundamental. Perhaps we should seriously argue this out. Since the law has been raised by MY. So we should have []
YA: That’s why I’m giving you chance now to submit.
SN: But MY has brought up some law here which we are not very ready.
YA: The law is clear here. Give me the case. You must know the case by Datuk Zawawi J.
RK: Another thing, YA. As pointed by my expert, this part of the chain is important for the listing of evidence as well. Because there is a number of sequence. That would be prejudicial to us.
MY: YA, there are two parts of the evidence. One is the document, one is the oral. As far as the oral evidence is concern, I received this and there were alteration made because the exhibits is just 11. Subsequently it is
reflected in the document. This is corroborative. []. Because the essence is the same.
YA: Oral evidence is admissible as long as it is relevant.
MY: But it talks about..
YA: Document yang kena comply with certain…
MY: That’s what I said. I really don’t want to make an issue because it is the law. But, this is what my Lord has to really consider. You can’t change the fact that this witness received a number of exhibit. And subsequently
certain thing was done and she testifies as to whether it is 12 or 11. [] . And that part of oral evidence of hers consistence with the alteration made on the document. If my learned friend’s intention is to preclude that evidence, it is a
waste of time because the court cannot [] the thing. []. The oral evidence of hers is what transpired of what she received. []. I know of authorities which says “ When in doubt, the court admit”. []. At the end of the day, we will have a
full submission. At this point in time, I leave it to the court. We can have it as ID or P. At the end, we will have full submission. There is no requirement to have the matters leave to doubt. []. And the court in Datuk Harun’s case says
that whatever is marked as ID is not before the court and cannot be admitted. But we ask questions, we show the document. So why are they being so technical?
RK: Datuk Harun’s case was way before S.51A.
YA: MY, you are suggesting we proceed with the trial and suspend the marking of this document?
MY: Yes.
YA: I think that is fair to save time. We don’t mark as exhibit yet. We proceed. Later on after full argument we decide whether to be marked as exhibit or not.
RK: It can’t even be marked as ID.
YA: We don’t mark as ID also.
RK: That should not be marked at all.
YA: That is what you are proposing, right?
MY: Like I said, Pusrawi report is IDD. Yet it is marked. The document will never be called by the prosecution.
YA: So, you are saying we marked it as ID first?
MY: Yes.
YA: And we proceed with the trial?
MY: Yes.
YA: Stand down for 10 minutes.
[9.39 a.m.]Stand down.
[9.40 a.m.]Pihak-pihak masuk ke Kamar Hakim.
[9.59 a.m.] Pihak-pihak keluar dari Kamar Hakim.
[10.05 a.m.]
RK: Before we proceed, we have instruction to take time to submit on this issue, YA. Because it is quite fundamental.
YA: Basically you are objecting to it being admitted as exhibit or marked as ID?
RK: It’s the entire admissibility.
YA: Nevermind. I can deliver my ruling now without hearing you.
RK: Can we have time to put in submission, YA? Because it is quite fundamental.
YA: I don’t think it is necessary. I’m giving decision on your favor. As clear as that. The objection by the counsel is that the document cannot be admitted as evidence because the defence was not supplied with the copy as
provided by S.51A of CPC. They also submitted that allowing this document marked as exhibits will prejudice the defence. I agree that S.51A has not been complied with and therefore it is my ruling that this document cannot be
marked. Since it could not be marked as exhibit, I do not see any reason for it to be marked as ID. An ID will remain an ID unless it could be turned into P later. So that is my ruling. So, can we proceed?
NB: Yes.
Saksi diingatkan masih di bawah sumpah.
Q: You have received POL 31 which was marked as P24 on 30.06.2008?
A: Yes.
Q: On 01.07.2008, did you received POL 31 from the police?
A: Yes.
Q: Will you be able to identify if it is shown?
A: Yes.
NB: May I tender the original copy of POL 31 form dated 28.08.2008.
Q: Were you be able to confirm that this was the form that you received on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes.
Q: You noted the date again dated as 28.08.2008?
A: Yes.
Q: But you received it on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes.
NB: If there is no objection from the counsel, may the POL 31 received on 01.07.2008 be marked as P29?
RK: The maker is the IO, so it should be marked as ID.
NB: But she issued the receipt, YA…
YA: It can be marked as P at this stage. P29.
POL 31 from PDRM dated 01.07.2008 is marked as P29.
Q: Who was the police office who made these request to you on 30.06.2008 as well as 01.07.2008?
A: ASP Jude Blacious Pierera.
Q: If I were to show you the ASP, will you be able to identify him?
A: Yes.
Q: Is this the ASP Jude Blacious Pierera?
A: Yes.
Supt. Jude Blacious is identified.
Q: Did you received any item for the request from this police officer?
A: Yes. On 30.06.2008, I received from ASP Jude 12 envelopes marked B, B1-B11 sealed with PDRM 330. On 01.07.2008, I received from the same police officer total of 8 envelope which was marked as A, A1-A7 and it was
sealed.
Q: What was the condition of the seal when you received the envelopes and packages?
A: The envelope and packaging in good condition and the seal is intact.
Q: When you received the 12 envelopes on 30.06.2008, did you issue a laboratory number?
A: Yes. I register the exhibits with laboratory number PJ FOR 6334/08-0. I then issued a receipt of acknowledgement of these 12 envelopes ASP Jude Blacious.
Q: Will you be able to identify the said receipt?
A: Yes, I can.
NB: May I refer the witness to a receipt Kimia dated 30.06.2008?
Q: Is this the said receipt that you issued to DSP Jude on 30.06.2008?
A: Yes, this is the receipt I issued to DSP Jude. It bears my signatures on every page of it.
NB: Can we mark it as P30?
Receipt from Chemist Department issued by Dr. Seah on 30th June 2008 is tendered and marked as P30.
Q: If I were to show these envelopes you received on 30.06.2008, will you be able to identify them?
A: Yes.
NB: With court permission, may I refer this witness to the 12 envelopes starting with envelopes marked “B”.
Q: Were you able to identify this is the said envelope you received?
A: Yes. This is the envelope “B” I received and examined and analyse and it bears the laboratory number which is PF? FOR 6334/08-0. And also the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
Q: And you can confirm there is a seal of Polis Diraja Malaysia on the envelope?
A: Yes.
NB: Can we have this envelope marked as P31?
Envelope marked “B” is tendered and marked as P31.
Q: The next envelope, marked “B1”. Can you have a look?
A: This envelope “B1” is received, examined and analise by me. There is the same laboratory number. And there is a security label of the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia and seal of Polis Diraja Malaysia.
NB: Can we have the envelope marked “B1” to be marked as P32?
Envelope marked “B1” is tendered and marked as P32.
YA: How many envelope do you have any more?
MY: About 10 more.
YA: Can we proceed now with the examination? You can examine later. Because I see there is a discussion there.
SN: Yes. Can we have time to examine this later on, YA?
YA: Yes.
Q: The next envelope marked “B2”.
A: This envelop “B2” is received, examined and analise by me. There is the same laboratory number. And there is a security label of Jabatan Kimia Malaysia with the Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: Can we have the envelope marked “B2” as P33?
Envelope marked “B2” is tendered and marked as P33.
Q: The next envelope marked “B3”.
A: This envelop “B3” is received, examined and analyse by me. It bears the same laboratory number. And there is Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and the Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: Can we have the envelope marked “B3” marked as P34?
Envelope marked “B3” is tendered and marked as P34.
Q: The next is envelope marked “B4”.
A: This envelop “B4” is received and analise by me. It bears the same laboratory number. And there is Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and the Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: Can we have the envelope marked “B4” marked as P35?
Envelope marked “B4” is tendered and marked as P35.
Q: The next envelope marked “B5”.
A: This envelope “B5” is received and examined. It bears the same laboratory number with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: May we have the envelope marked “B5” be marked as P36.
Envelope marked “B5” is tendered and marked as P36.
Q: The next envelop marked “B6”.
A: This envelope “B6” is received and examined. It bears the same laboratory number with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: May we have the envelope marked “B6” marked as P37?
Envelope marked “B6” is tendered and marked as P37.
Q: The next envelope marked “B7”.
A: This envelope “B7” is received and examined. It bears the same laboratory number with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: May we have the envelope marked “B7” marked as P38?
Envelope marked “B1” is tendered and marked as P38.
Q: The next envelope marked “B8”.
A: This envelope “B8” is received and examined. It bears the same laboratory number with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and also Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: May we have the envelope marked “B8” marked as P39?
Envelope marked “B1” is tendered and marked as P39.
Q: The next envelope marked “B9”.
A: This envelope “B9” is received and examined. It bears the same laboratory number with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: May we have the envelope marked “B9” marked as P40?
Envelope marked “B9” is tendered and marked as P40.
Q: The next envelop marked “B10”.
A: This envelope “B10” is received and examined. It bears the same laboratory number with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: May we have the envelope marked “B10” marked as P41?
Envelope marked “B10” is tendered and marked as P41.
Q: The next envelope marked “B11”
A: This envelop “B11”which I received, it bear the same laboratory number which was first registered by me is PJ FOR 6334/08-0. I handed envelope “B11” to my colleague, Mr. Mohan for toxicological analysis which he has
subsequently seal in Kimia security bag and he had re-registered the exhibits with laboratory number PJ FOR 6334/08-1 which is also on the envelope.
NB: May we have the envelope marked “B11” to be marked as P42 and the plastic which the envelope “B11” is put in be marked as P42A ?
Envelope marked “B11” is tendered and marked as P42 and plastic bag which the envelope P42 is put in is marked as P42A.
Q: Before that, the writings on these envelopes, can you identify the whose writing it is?
A: I don’t be able to identify.
Q: But it is not yours?
A: No, it’s not mine.
Q: We now go to envelope marked “B11”. Did you check the content of the envelopes you received?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: And what was the conditions of all the envelopes tendered just now before the court when you received them on 30.06.2008?
A: The contents were as indicated as in the request form.
Q: Were they seal?
A: Yes. They were sealed. Inside of each respective envelopes was plastic packets with plastic receptacles. And all the plastic receptacles in each respective envelopes are sealed.
Q: Were there any markings on the contents of the envelopes?
A: Yes.
Q: Do you remember what was the seal on the plastic receptacles?
SP5: YA, I seek permission to refer to my report.
YA: Shouldn’t be a problem. She is entitled.
A: The plastic receptacles of B, B1-B9 were respectively sealed with “Kemerterian Kesihatan Malaysia, Jabatan Perubatan Forensik Hospital Kuala Lumpur” security labels.
Q: Were the seal of the HKl still intact when you received them?
A: Yes, all the seals were intact.
Q: Did you make more marking on the receptacles when you received them?
A: Yes. I labelled each of the receptacles with the laboratory number which is PJ FOR 6334/08-0.
NB: Dengan izin YA, if I may now refer to the content of each envelopes to this particular witness.
Q: I am taking out the content of envelope marked “B”, which was tendered just now as P31.
A: Yes. This is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and the exhibits
number which is “B”.
Q: What is the content of the plastic receptacles?
A: Cotton swab stick.
NB: May we have the plastic bag marked plastic bag P31(A). Receptacles now identified P6(A).
Plastic bag inside envelope “B” is marked as P31(A). Receptacles is identified by P6(A).
NB: May I refer now the content from sampul “B1” which was marked as P32.
Q: Can you confirm this is the content you received?
A: Yes. This is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B1”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and the exhibits
number which is “B1”. And inside the recptacles I the cotton swab stick.
NB: The content, P6(B) is identified. May I now have the plastic bag be marked as P32(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(B). Plastic bag inside envelope “B1” is marked as P32(A).
NB: May I now refer the content from envelope “B2” which was marked as P33.
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. This is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B2”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and the exhibits
number which is “B2”. And inside the plastic receptacles was the cotton swab stick.
NB: P6(C) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P33(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(C). Plastic bag inside envelope “B2” is marked as P33(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P34 which is the envelope marked “B3”.
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. This is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B3”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and the exhibits
number which is “B3”. And inside the plastic receptacles is the cotton swab sticks.
NB: P6(D) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P34(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(D). Plastic bag inside envelope “B3” is marked as P34(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P35 which is the envelope marked “B4”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside envelope “ B4” is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B4”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and
the exhibits number which is “B4”. And inside the plastic receptacles is the cotton swab sticks.
NB: P6(E) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P34(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(E). Plastic bag inside envelope “B4” is marked as P35(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P36 which is the envelope marked “B5”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside envelope “B5” is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B5”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and
the exhibits number which is “B5”. And inside the plastic receptacles is the cotton swab sticks.
NB: P6(F) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P36(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(F). Plastic bag inside envelope “B5” is marked as P36(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P37 which is the envelope marked “B6”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside envelope “B6” is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B6”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and
the exhibits number which is “B6”. And inside the plastic receptacles is the cotton swab sticks.
NB: P6(G) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P37(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(F). Plastic bag inside envelope “B6” is marked as P36(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P38 which is the envelope marked “B7”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside envelope “B7” is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B7”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and
the exhibits number which is “B7”. And inside the plastic receptacles is the cotton swab sticks.
NB: P6(H) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P38(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(H). Plastic bag inside envelope “B7” is marked as P38(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P39 which is the envelope marked “B8”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside envelope “B8” is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B8”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and
the exhibits number which is “B8”. And inside the plastic receptacles is the cotton swab sticks.
NB: P6(I) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P39(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(I). Plastic bag inside envelope “B8” is marked as P39(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P40 which is the envelope marked “B9”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside envelope “B9” is the labelled plastic packet which contains receptacles with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B9”. Inside were the plastic receptacles with the laboratory number and
the exhibits number which is “B9”. And inside the plastic receptacles is the cotton swab sticks.
NB: P6(J) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P40(A).
Plastic receptacles is identified as P6(J). Plastic bag inside envelope “B9” is marked as P40(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P41 which is the envelope marked “B10”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside envelope “B10” is the labelled plastic packet with the same laboratory number and exhibits number which is “B10”. Inside were the plastic packet was the FTA card which bear blood stain specimens. And I
labelled the FTA card with the same laboratory number and the exhibits number which is “B10”.
NB: P6(K) is identified. May I have the plastic bag be marked as P41(A).
FTA card is identified as P6(K). Plastic bag inside envelope “B10” is marked as P41(A).
NB: May I now refer the witness to P42 which is the envelope marked “B11”
Q: Will you be able to identify the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. The content of P42 was examined by my colleagues, Mr. Mohan. He was the one who opened the envelope and examined the contents.
Q: So, you will not be able to identify the content.
A: Yes, I’m unable.
Q: But, do you know what the content of this envelope is when you received them on 30.06.2008?
A: The content is whatever listed in POL 31 form.
Q: Again, when you received all these envelopes, you can certify that the seals of the plastic receptacles you received were intact?
A: Yes, they were intact.
Q: We come now to the items received on 01.07.2008. How many envelopes did you received on the said date?
A: Total of 8 exhibits which comprised of 6 envelopes marked A, A3-A7. Also one package marked A(1) and another package marked A(2).
Q: Are able to identify the content of the said envelopes?
A: Yes, I can.
NB: YA, if I may now refer the witness to envelope marked “A”.
Q: Envelopes marked “A”. Will you be able ito identify is this the said envelope you received on 01.07.2008.
A: Yes. This is the envelope I received and examined, bearing laboratory number PJ FOR 6334/08-2 with Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
NB: Can we have this enveloped marked as P43?
Envelope marked as “A” is tendered and marked as P43.
NB: Dan untuk tidak membuang masa, may I have the witness open this envelope, YA?
Q: Did you checked the content of this envelope?
A: Yes.
Q: When you received the envelope, were there seal on this envelope?
A: Yes, when I received this envelope which is envelope “A”, it was sealed with Polis Diraja Malaysia 330.
Q: And when you received the envelopes, were the seal intact?
A: It was intact.
Q: And when checked the content, did you break open the seal?
A: Yes, I did. The seal was broken at the end at which the envelope is cut.
Q: After your examination, what did you do with the envelope?
A: I seal it with Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
Q: What are the conditions of the seal now?
A: The seal is intact.
NB: May we have the envelope marked P43 be opened by this particular witness, YA?
A: Inside envelope “A” is another envelope sealed with Polis Diraja Malaysia.
Q: What was the condition of that particular seal when you received this item on 01.07.2008?
A: The seal was intact.
NB: Can we now have this marked as P43(A)?
YA: Yes.
Envelope sealed with PDRM is marked as P43(A).
Q: So, you opened up this envelope when you received them on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes.
Q: When you have done your examination, did you put the item back in the envelope?
A: Yes and I taped it with the security tape of Jabatan Kimia Malaysia.
Q: Is the seal now still intact?
A: Yes.
NB: May we have this witness open the envelope now, YA?
A: Inside the envelope was a strand of pubic hair which was taped on a paper. And the hair is removed for examination, and then I secured the hair on the paper provided by me and I marked the paper which has been
provided by me with the same laboratory number which is PJ FOR 6334/08-2 and the exhibit number which is “A”. And this paper is taped together with the original paper where the hair is secured on..
NB: May we have the first paper, the original paper which the pubic hair was strapped on it marked as P43(B)?
YA: Yes.
NB: And the next paper which was supplied by this particular witness after examination, where the strand of hair was strapped on marked as P43(C).
Paper supplied by HKL is marked as P43(B) and paper supplied by Jabatan Kimia Malaysia with a strand of pubic hair taped on it is marked as P43(C).
SN: YA, one question. How can one say this is pubic hair?
NB: []
YA: You can cross her later on that how she conclude that is pubic hair.
SN: []
NB: Because it is written in her report, YA.
SN: Could be strand of hair too.
YA: Proceed.
Q: Next, I refer the witness to envelope marked “A3”. Would you be able to identify this is the envelope marked “A3” you received on 01.07.2008
A: Yes. It bears the laboratory number PJ FOR 6334/08-2. And also the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and the remaining seal of Polis Diraja Malaysia.
Q: When you received the envelope, is the seal of Polis Diraja Malaysia intact?
A: Yes, the seal was intact.
Q: And you open it?
A: Yes.
Q: After you opened it, what did you do with the content as well as the envelope?
A: I placed the content into the original envelope and I then sealed the envelope with Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
NB: Can we now have this envelope marked as P44?
Envelope marked “A3” is marked P44.
Q: Did you checked the content of this envelope?
A: Yes. Inside “A3” was a pair of black trousers.
Q: Is there a brand on this particular black trousers?
A: No label or tag on the trousers..
Q: Did you look at the content?
NB: The envelope is already opened when we called SP1 to identify the content of this envelope..
Q: Can you open the envelope and were you able to identify the content of the envelope?
A: Yes. This is the pair of black trousers. And I labelled with the laboratory number and the exhibit number which is “A3”.
The content of the envelope which is a black trousers which is marked as P12 is identified.
P12 is identified.
Q: When you received this enveloped, was the seal on P44 intact?
A: Yes, the seal was intact.
Q: Next, I refer the witness to envelope marked “A4”. Will you able to identify is this the said the envelope as the one you received on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes. It bear the laboratory number of PJ FOR 6334/08-2 and also the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia label and the remaining of the Polis Diraja Malaysia seal.
Q: Was the seal of Polis Diraja Malaysia intact when you received them?
A: Yes, it was intact.
Q: Did you open up the envelope when you received it on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes. I open and examined the content of the envelope.
Q: After that?
A: The content is put back in the envelope and I sealed the envelope with Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
Q: Is the seal now intact?
A: Yes.
NB: Because this envelope is opened by MY earlier during the examination of SP1 without tempering with the seal.
NB: May I have this envelope marked as P45?
Envelope “A4” is marked as P45.
Q: Please inform the court what is the content of this envelope?
A: Inside “A4” was a long-sleeved, blue and white striped shirt labeled Ralph Lauren.
Q: Is this the said shirt?
A: Yes. I have labelled the said shirt with the laboratory number and the exhibit number of “A4”.
P11 is identified.
Q: Next, I refer the witness to envelope marked as “A5”. Will you able to identify the envelope as the one you received on 01.07.2008.
A: Yes. It bears the laboratory number PJ FOR 6334/08-2. And also the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and the remaining seal of Polis Diraja Malaysia.
Q: Was the enveloped seal when you received them?
A: Yes, it is sealed with the Polis Diraja Malaysia 330 and the seal was intact.
Q: Did you open up the envelope when you received it?
A: Yes. I open and examined the content. And I subsequently put it back in the envelope and sealed it with Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
Q: Is the seal still intact?
A: Yes.
NB: May we have this enveloped marked as P46?
Envelope “A5” is marked as P46.
Q: With permission, can the witness open the envelope?
YA: Yes.
Q: Please open the envelope.
A: Inside envelope A5 is a dark blue underwear with Levi’s label. I labelled with the laboratory number and the exhibit number which is A5.
P15 is identified.
Q: Next, I refer the witness to envelope marked “A6”. Will you able to identify the envelope as the one you received on 01.07.2008
A: Yes. This is the envelope which I received on 01.07.2008. And it bears the same laboratory number of PJ FOR 6334/08-2 and the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
Q: What was the condition of the seal when you received it?
A: The seal were intact.
Q: Did you open up the envelope when you received it?
A: Yes, I did. I open the enveloped and examined the content. I placed the content into the envelope and subsequently sealed it with Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
Q: What is the condition of the seal of Jabatan Kimia Malaysia now?
A: The seal are still intact.
NB: May we have this enveloped marked as P47?
Envelope “A6” is marked as P47.
Q: With permission, can the witness open the envelope?
A: Inside envelope A6 was a grey underwear with Levi’s label. I marked the underwear with the same laboratory number and the exhibit number which is A6.
P14 is identified.
Q: Next, I refer the witness to envelope marked “A7”. Is this the said envelope you received on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes, this is the said envelope I received on 01.07.2008. It bears the same laboratory number PJ FOr 6334/08-2 and also Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and Polis Diraja Malaysia remaining seal.
Q: Was the seal of Polis Diraja Malaysia intact when you received it?
A: Yes, it was intact.
Q: What did you do with the envelope?
A: I opened the envelope and examined the content. Subsequently I put it back and sealed it with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label.
Q: At that point in time, what was the condition of the seal when you give it back to DSP Jude?
A: Yes, it was intact.
NB: This enveloped was opened during the EIC of SP1 with the seal still intact.
NB: Can I have this enveloped marked as P48?
Envelope “A7” is marked as P48.
Q: Did you check the content of the envelope on that day?
A: Yes.
Q: Can you inform the court what is in the envelope?
A: A long-sleeved green shirt with G2000 label. I have labelled the shirt with the same laboratory number and the exhibit number of “A7”.
P13 is identified.
Q: Next, I refer the witness to the next item marked “A1”. Will you be able to identify this is the package marked as “A1” that you received on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes. This is the package whoch I received on 01.07.2008. It bears the lab number of PJ FOR 6334/08-2. And also the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia security label and security tape.
Q: What was the condition of the seal when you received this package on 01.07.2008 from DSP Jude?
A: The seal were intact. There ere two seals on this package which is Polis Diraja Malaysia 330 and Forensic Diraja Malaysia.
Q: And both seals are intact?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you open this particular item when you received it?
A: Yes, I did. I examined the content and subsequently put it back in the package and sealed it with JKM security label and security tape.
Q: What is the condition of the seal now?
A: It is still intact.
NB: May we have this package mark “A1” marked as P49?
Packaging “A1” is marked as P49.
Q: Did you check the content of this package?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: Please inform the court what is inside the package?
A: Inside it is a multi-coloured carpet.
Q: Did you analyse this carpet?
A: Yes, I did examine the content of this package. Subsequently I put it back in the package and sealed it with the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia seal and security tape.
Q: Are the seal still intact?
A: Yes.
Q: With permission from the court, may the witness open the packaging?
A: Inside the packaging is this multi-coulured carpet and I marked it with the same laboratory number and the exhibit number which is “A1”.
NB: May we have this carpet marked as P49(A)?
A multi-coloured carpet from packaging “A” is marked as P49(A).
Q: Next, I refer the witness to envelope marked “A2”. Will you able to identify this is the package of A2 that you received on 01.07.2008?
A: Yes. This is the said package. It bears the same laboratory number of PJ FOR 6333/08-2.
Q: What was the condition of the package when you received it from DSP Jude on 01.07.2008?
A: The package is in goof condition. There were two seals on the package, one was Forensic Polis Diraja Malaysia and the other one is Polis Diraja Malaysia 330. Both seals were intact at that time.
NB: Can we have this packaging “A2” marked as P50?
Packaging “A2” marked as P50.
Q: What did you do with this package when you received them?
A: I opened the package and examined it. I then place the content in the original packaging and sealed it with Jabatan Kimia Malaysia seal and security label.
Q: What are the seal of the Jabatan Kimia Malaysia now?
A: The seal is still intact.
NB: May we have this particular witness to open the package, YA?
YA: Yes.
Q: Please inform the court what is the content of this particular package.
A: Inside the packaging was a duvet labeled Pasaya Home Fashion with a blue casing. I marked the duvet with the same laboratory number and the exhibit number which is “A2”.
Q: So you confirm this is the item you received in packaging P50?
A: Yes.
NB: May the duvet now be marked as P50(A)?
Duvet labeled Pasaya Home Fashion with a blue casing is marked as P50(A).
Q: Dr. Seah, if you noticed, all the envelopes that is tendered in court today there are these green markings on this envelopes marked A3-A7. Yellow on envelope A. Did you make these markings?
A: No. These markings were not made by me.
Q: As regard to packaging of A and A1-A7, did you issued a receipt to DSP Jude?
A: Yes. I registered the second batch of exhibits with laboratory number PJ FOR 6334/08-2. I then issued a receipt in acknowledgement of receiving the items and give it to DSP Jude.
Q: Will you be able to identify the said receipt?
A: Yes, I can.
Q: May I refer the witness to receipt rasmi Jabatan Kimia Malaysia dated 01.07.2008? Is this the said receipt?
A: Yes. This is the receipt I issued to DSP Jude and it bears my signature on each and every page.
NB May the receipt now be marked as P51?
Receipt rasmi Jabatan Kimia Malaysia dated 01.07.2008 is marked as P51.
[11.36 a.m.]Stand down.
[12.13 p.m.]
Sambung EIC SP5.
Q: After you have received all these items which have been tendered today in court, did you at any time gave any of the item to anyone?
A: No.
Q: What about B11?
A: Except for B11 which was handed to Mr. Mohan.
Q: What was the purpose for you to hand over this B11 to Mr. Mohan?
A: Because B11 was for toxicology analysis.
Q: That was as per the request of the police officer?
A: Yes.
Q: Who is Mr. Mohan?
A: Mr. Mohan is a toxicology chemist and he is in the toxicology section in Jabatan Kimia Malaysia in PJ.
Q: When did you give this exhibit B11 to Mr Mohan?
A: I handed exhibit B11 to Mr. Mohan on 01.07.2008 at approximately at 2.24 p.m.
Q: Will you be able to identify Mr. Mohan?
A: Yes, I can.
NB: Mohon dipanggil En. Mohan a/l K.P. Gangadharan untuk pengecaman, YA.
Q: Is this the said Mr. Mohan?
A: Yes. This is Mr. Mohan, my colleague whom I handed exhibit B11 to.
Mr.Mohan a/l K.P. Gangadharan is identified.
Q: Do you know whether Mr. Mohan conducted toxicology analysis?
A: He did. He returned the exhibit B11 to me together with the toxicology report on 04.07.2008 at about 11.45 a.m.
Q: And to the best of your knowledge, what was the result of that analysis done by Mr. Mohan?
A: The report was handed over to the submitting officer, DSP Judy Blacious together with my report.
Q: You are not aware of the result?
A: I’m not aware of the result.
Q: But you did receive back from exhibit B11?
A: Yes.
Q: When was that?
A: I received it back from Mr. Mohan on 04.07.2008 at approximately 11.45 a.m.
Q: Where do you keep these items or these exhibits after you have received them?
A: These exhibits were stored inside the freezer before examination starts.
YA: Which one? Which exhibits?
NB: All of the exhibits.
Q: This exhibits here? From P31 to P41 as well as P43. Regarding the exhibits of P31 to P41, where do you keep them after you have received them?
A: The envelope exhibits was kept inside the freezer which is located in the DNA laboratory.
Q: What about P43? That strand of hair?
A: That was kept together with other exhibits.
Q: What about P44-black trousers, P45-the long sleeve shirt. P46-the blue underwear, P47-the grey underwear and P48-the green shirt? Where do you keep them?
A: They were also kept inside the freezer.
Q: What about P49 and P50? Multi-coloured carpet and the duvet.
A: These item are bulky, therefore they are kept in the cold room.
Q: Were there any other item/exhibits for other cases stored in the same freezer where you kept the exhibits?
A: Yes, there were other items.
Q: How did you ensure the other item do not mixed with these items from this particular case?
A: There are a number of procedures that are adopted by us. The exhibits of a laboratory number will be labelled with the laboratory number which is the unique identifiable number. And they were then packed inside a plastic
bag, keep sealed and then I initial on the [] seal before I store it in the freezer.
Q: Is there anyone else besides you who have access to this particular freezer.
A: Yes. There are other authorised personnel who had access to the freezer.
Q: Were there anyone had the access of the exhibits when they are in the Chemist Department?
A: Only my assistant who assisted me during the examination.
Q: Who were this assistant that assisted you in the examination?
A: There were a laboratory assistant that assisted me in the examination and her name is Siti Zaharah.
NB: May we reserve the identification of Siti Zaharah at this juncture, YA?
Q: On the 30.06.2008, what was the request made to you regarding the exhibits?
A: To carry out examination for detection of any foreign material detected and for DNA typing.
Q: On 01.07.2008, what was the request made to you regarding those items you received on that date?
A: The request is also for DNA typing.
Q: Did you conduct the analysis as requested?
A: Yes, I did.
Q: When did you start conducting the analysis?
A: The first batch of exhibits which was received on 30.06.2008 with the laboratory number of PJ FOR 6334/08-0, the examination starts on 01.07.2008 and the second batch of exhibits which were received on 01.07.2008
registered under laboratory number PJ FOR 6334/08-2, the examination of those exhibits were conducted on 02.07.2008.
Q: When did you finished conducting the analysis?
A: The analysis was completed on 05.07.2008.
Q: What did you find in your examination of the exhibits?
A: I first examine for the presence of seminal stain which was carried out on swabs inside exhibits B, B1-B9 and also the clothing items and bedding items which was the carpet A1, duvet A2, trousers A3, shirts A4,
underwear A5 and A6, and shirt A7.
Q: What was your findings on this exhibits?
A: The examination for the presence of semen or seminal stains were carried out on those item and I found presence of semen on B5, B7, B8 and B9. But the remaining swabs there were no detectable semen. For clothing
item I found seminal stain of trousers A3 and underwear A6.
Q: You said just now that you found the presence on swab B5, B7, B8 and B9.
A: Yes.
NB: YA, B7 has been marked as P6(H), B5 has been marked as P6(F), B8 has been marked as P6(I) and B9 has been marked as P6(J).
Q: You also informed the court that you found seminal stains on A3-the black trousers?
A: Yes.
NB: YA, the black trousers of A3 has been marked as P12.
Q: And you also found seminal stain on A6- the grey underwear?
A: Yes.
NB: YA, the grey underwear is marked as P14.
Q: Do you have any knowledge at that point of time what was the location of the swabs B5, B7, B8 and B9?
A: I’m only aware of the location of them based on the labels on the plastic receptacles which contained this swab..
NB: May I refer first to the plastic receptacles B5 which is P6(F). I refer to the content of the envelope of P36.
Q: Can you inform the court what was stated as to the location taken.
A: It is labelled on the plastic receptacle as swab from peri anal region.
NB: May I refer to envelope B7, marked as P38 and the content which is marked as P6(H).
Q: Can you inform the court what was the location of the swabs?
A: It is labelled on the plastic receptacle as high rectal swab.
Q: Is this information also stated on the envelope?
A: Yes.
Q: Also the earlier swab B5?
A: Yes.
NB: May I refer to envelope B8, marked as P39 and the content which is marked as P6(I).
Q: Can you inform the court as to the location of the swabs taken?
A: It is labelled on the plastic receptacle as high rectal swab. Also, on the envelope.
NB: May I refer to envelope B9, marked as P40 and the content which is marked as P6(J).
Q: Can you inform the court as to the location of the swabs taken?
A: It is labelled on the plastic receptacles as low rectal swab.
Q: As regard to the content of the envelope A3 you said that you found seminal stains on the trousers P12. How many spots of seminal stains were there on the trousers?
A: There are 2 spots which I marked as A3(a) and A3(b).
Q: Please show the court the location on the trousers where you found the seminal stain?
A: A3(a) is at the front part. I mark it at the zip. And A3(b) is at the bottom of the trousers.
NB: Can we mark A3(A) as P12(A) and A3(B) as P12(B).
Spots on which the samples were taken from black trousers are marked as P12(A) dan P12(B).
Q: Can you describe P12(A) and P12(B). The position of the seminal stains which you took the samples.
A: The semen spots were found along the zip are part at the front of the trousers. There’s one spot at the top and one spot at the bottom.
Q: And you also found seminal stains on exhibit P14, grey underwear label Levi’s.
A: Yes.
Q: How many spots that you find the seminal stains on this underwear?
A: There were two spots of seminal stains on this underwear which I marked as A6(a) and A6(b).
Q: Please show the court the two spots where you find seminal stains on the underwear.
A: There are two spots here. The top spot I marked as A6(a) and the bottom spot I marked as A6(b). The cuts region were the area which I take for analysis.
NB: May we now mark it as P14(A) for the top part which was marked A6(a) earlier and P14(B) for the lower part which was marked A6(b) earlier?
Spots on which the samples were taken from grey underwear are marked as P14(A) dan P14(B).
Q: How do you detect and identify seminal stains?
A: There is a number of test. There are confirmatory test for the identification of seminal stains and there are also non-confirmatory test which requires further testing to confirm the presence of seminal stains. For swabs B,
B1-B9, two test were used to confirm the presence of semen. One was PSA (Prostate Specific Antigen) test. And we use the Immunoassay test. It was carried it out using the immunoassay test by the Seratec which was the
manufacturer of the PSA test and this is a confirmatory test for presence of semen. In addition, we use another confirmatory test to determine the presence of semen which was the Sperm Isolation test where from the cut area we []
out the semen which was from it or the biological stain which was from it.. This was then stained and microscope satellite and observe under the microscope for the presence of sperm cells. For the clothing item of A3 and A6, we
first carried out a test called Acid Phosphatase. This is to indicate the presence of seminal stains. This is a non-confirmatory test. After this was carried out, this is usually used on items which is massive or which has broader area
where we need to narrow down where the stains are. Furthermore, after the AP test was carried out, we carried out two other additional test which was the same test as that for the swabs, the PSA and Immunoassay test and the
Sperm Isolation to confirm the presence of seminal stains.
Q: From all those steps?
A: Yes. From the Acid Phosphatase.
Q: And you confirm there are seminal stains?
A: Yes.
Q: Did you also conduct the spermatozoa test on the semen that you found?
A: Yes. That was the Sperm Isolation which was taken from a portion from the cut stain that was [] out, [], observe under the microscope after it is stained. The presence of the sperm cells are then determined.
Q: Did you discover the presence of sperm cells in your examination?
A: Yes, there was presence of sperm cells.
Q: Does human being male semen contained spermatozoa all the time?
A: Yes. Except for male which is a spermic, that means males which has seminal fluids which does not contain semen.
Q: But in this case you did detect spermatozoa.
A: Yes, I did.
Q: What would you conclude when you found the presence of spermatozoa from a seminal stain?
A: The seminal fluid does contain spermatozoa that is non-spermic individual.
Q: Would you consider that as fresh seminal stain?
A: There is no way to make an evaluation of the presence of the spermatozoa. You cannot evaluate the freshness of the stains or depends on how well preserved those stains are in the respective item.
Q: And in your experience, how long would a spermatozoa remains in the seminal stain?
A: That depends on the environmental conditions in which this stains are found. There are condition which would favour their preservation or their persistence and there are also condition which might not favour their
persistence. Under those unfavourable conditions like high temperature, high humidity, the biological stains or the seminal stains would soon be destroyed. But if the condition is well preserved, where it is dry and cool, the seminal
stains will preserved for considerable length of time.
Q: This sperm, spermatozoa, they consist of head and tail, isn’t it?
A: Yes. But when they are dried up as seminal stains like on clothing, the tails are shed. So, you would only see the sperm heads under the microscopic examination. The tails are normally seen in fresh seminal fluid.
Q: Under normal circumstances, when do they disintegrate, the head and tail?
A: Under normal circumstances usually when in no fluid environment and also the sperm cells are prone to microbial attack so the tails will be lost quickly but the heads are more preserves. That is because of the membrane
structure of the head. But what matters to the analyst or the DNA scientist is the head because that is where the nuclear DNA is. The tail does not contain any nuclear DNA.
Q: When you conduct this examination, did you find in this sperm cells both head and tail?
A: No. We did not observe the tail. Only the head.
Q: How long can a seminal stain last for DNA profile to be developed?
A: It depends on the conditions on which the seminal stain is found.
Q: And if the condition is conducive?
A: Then the DNA analysis will be more successful that you be able to type the DNA which is inside the sperm cells.
Q: Not outstanding how long the seminal stain is, isn’t it?
A: Yes.
Q: How long does the seminal fluid or the sperm last in one’s body before it drain out in the body?
A: I’m not an expert in that.
Q: And how long can the seminal fluid or sperm remain in the anal part of a person?
A: I have no any empirical studies on that. Again, I’m not an expert on that.
RK: YA, if I may. I don’t wish to interrupt, but I wonder is this witness an appropriate witness for this examination. She is a chemist. She did DNA profiling. She is not an expert ..
NB: She’s a scientist in chemistry and conducting analysis of these semen, YA.
SN: []
NB: We can ask possibilities from scientist.
Q: What did you do next as to the exhibits after the examination of the sperm or the seminal stains?
A: The seminal positive areas will be cut out for DNA testing.
Q: Please tell the court the meaning of DNA, it’s concept and what is actually DNA profiling.
A: DNA is an [] for deoxyribonucleic acid. DNA is hereditary material in human beings. DNA can be found from fluids like blood, semen, saliva, aspiration and also in tissues like hands. DNA profiling is the examination of
DNA at specific locations of the geno and this specific location is termed as loci and the result of DNA profiling is the DNA profile. And DNA profiling is carried out at very specific targets which are selected because of the hyper
variability that exist high differential between individuals at this particular location. And therefore the result of a DNA profiling is a DNA profile which would have a high power of discrimination which can be used to differentiate
individuals even an approximate two identification.
Q: Please inform the court to what extend is the uniqueness of DNA profiling?
A: Except for identical twins which have identical profile, the DNA profile of any two individuals is different even between siblings. And because of the specific locations which is being used for DNA profiling, these are short
tandem repeats profiling, the profile which is generated is the result of the DNA profiling have high power of discrimination and can be used to discriminate between two individuals.
Q: Please inform the court what are the items or the exhibits which you have conducted the DNA analysis and please inform the court how did you conduct DNA analysis step by step.
A: The items which I carried out DNA analysis on were firstly the swab B, B1-B9, the blood stains specimen which is B10, and hair A and also the seminal stains on trousers A3 and underwear A6. DNA analysis involves a
number of steps. The first step is the DNA extraction where the swabs, the blood stain specimens, hair and seminal stains were sampled. And DNA extraction is then carried out after which the amount of DNA is extracted and then
quantified. After quantification, a specific amount of DNA is then used for PCR, polymerase chain reaction.
Q: Is that the technique that you used, adopted in the analysis?
A: Yes. And polymerase chain reaction is carried out on the DNA extract. And the DNA was examined at 15 short tandem repeat loci which are stated in my report at page 3. And also at one sex determining locus which is
[]. And after that the polymerase chain reaction product are then analyse and separated inside an instrument known as genetic analyser. The genetic analyser will separate the DNA fragment and also typed the DNA fragment and
the DNA proflie is then generated and [] as electro-phoreogram which will contain the [] of the DNA at the STR loci and at the amlioginie locus.
Q: So, the method that you use is called polymerase chain reaction, the PCR technique. Was there a calibration done on your analysis?
A: Yes, the instrument that are used to carry out the PCR []. There are internal checks before each run, which was carried out on the instrument itself. And on the genetic analyser two, two calibrations is carried out through
calibration which is carried out on the installation of the machines and also when there are optic changes. And also special calibration is carried out on the [] performance before each run. In addition to all the internal checks on the
instruments, we have an annual preventive maintenance which is carried out by trained engineers and he weill carried out checks on the instrument to ensure that the instrument performance is liable.
Q: You mentioned 15 genetic loci,.15th STR loci. Are there any difference in the test compared to the test carried out about 10 years ago?
A: Yes. We were using less at once technology ten years ago. Ten years ago we were using the RFLP, restriction fragment length polymorphism together with amplifies fragment length polymorphism which was the amplified
fragment length polymorphism was only for a briefed period. We have replaced the old technology to the new STR technology.
Q: The increase of the STR loci, what is the significance of it?
A: When the number of the STR loci is increased, it increases the disrimination power to differentiate between individuals.
Q: Is this 15 STR loci is the same as the international standards adopted by international scientists?
A: Yes. This 15 STR loci has been recommended for forensic use and for forensic identification. And this 15 STR loci is commonly used in the international DNA laboratories.
Q: And as far as the polymerase reaction technique, is this the latest technique adopted by the international standards?
A: This is the recommended technique for DNA typing which is also used by the international laboratories.
Q: What are the advantages of this new technique?
A: The new technique increase the sensitivity and also it increses the discrimination power.
Q: What are the results you have obtained from your analysis? And how did you derived your analysis?
NB: YA, bagi kemudahan semua pihak, may I straight away tender ID 25 now to be marked as P25 if there is no objection from the counsel?
Q: You have prepared a report after you have done your analysis, right?
A: Yes.
Q: Is this the report? (Refer witness to ID25)
A: Yes. This is my report. It consist of 4 pages with my signatures on each pages. Of the report and also the appendix which is 3 pages.
NB: May we now mark and tendered ID25 as P25?
Chemist report, ID25 is identifid, tendered and marked as P25.
[1.03 p.m.] Stand down.
[2.40 p.m.] Mohon SP5 dipanggil semula.
Q: Earlier, you mentioned about the technique that you are adopted in analyzing the specimens for DNA analysis. You mentioned about the Polymerase Chain Reaction (PCR) technique. Can you please explain the PCR?
A: PCR is a technique which is used to amplify a DNA, meaning making a millions of copy of DNA from the original template and this reaction carried out in enzyme called [] polymerase and the objective of PCR is to amplify
the DNA at specific target of the DNA. This specific target is the STR loci which are stated in my report. So the end result of PCR is products which are millions fold copies of DNA and this specific target
Q: What was the technique adopted before the PCR technique?
A: Before the PCR technique the Forensic DNA Community was using a technique known as RFLP – Restriction Fragment Length Polymorphism. That was before the invention of PCR technique.
Q: Can you please explain the advantages in using the PCR technique as compared to the RFLP technique?
A: The PCR increases the sensitivity of detecting the DNA because of the amplification. In addition, it was able to analyze the smaller fragment of DNA or rather DNA of poor quality compare to previous technique ; RFLP
which requires high quality of DNA for successful analysis.
Q: We are now moving on to the result and outcome from your DNA examination. May I refer YA, saksi kepada P25.
Dr Seah can you please tell the court what are the results that you have obtained from your analysis examination and how you derive your findings in your report.
A: There are few numbers of indications. The first indication [SAKSI BACA PARA (i) M/S ¾ DARI P25]
Q: And this finding of the result that you have obtained, can also be cross referred to your summary of your STR results in your appendix attached together in your report?
A: Correct. [Refer to the Appendix, page I of Appendix 1]. The first column: Seminal stains from trousers “A3” [“A3(a) & “A3(b)” and DNA profiles from seminal stains of the trouser of the genotypes at each respective locus is
tabulated in this table and where the integers is actually number of tendon repeats and there are two integers, those with two integers are [] meaning the alleles, those paternal and maternal alleles are different, and those integers
which are single, those paternal and maternal alleles are the same
Q: So, in other words, if we go and see the summary of STR results, are the seminal stains from A3(a) and (b), the alleles would be 12 and 13 at the locus of D81179 and you compare it with B10
A: B 10 which is at page iii Appendix 1, at the same locus, the allele would be 12 and 13.
Q: You mentioned in your result the probability of a coincidentally match from a randomly selected unrelated individual as calculated based on the Malaysian population database. Malaysian Malays is 1 in 570 quadrillion. Can
you please explain, how did you come with this calculation?
A: This was calculated from a population database of a samples of Malaysian Malays, and the frequency of each alleles is computed and using with the law of genetics with the correction of sub-population, sub-culture, the
figure of 1 in 570 quadrillion was obtained. This is a very high figure and it indicates that the high certainty that these two DNA profiles are originated from the same individual.
Q: Next, tell us your finding of the next result.
A: The second indication [READ para ii) page 3 of P25] and the result is again tabulated in Appendix 1 (READ AND EXPLAIN).
Q: In another words, the allele 12 and 13 just now from the underwear A6(a) and (b) is the same contributor of seminal stain in A3, as well as of blood stain specimen of B10.
A: Yes
Q: You mentioned that A6 (a) and (b), there’s another contributor-Male Y. Can you please identify the allele belongs to Male Y here?
A: It is in column under sperm extract, seminal stain from underwear A6 (a) and A6(b) and there were two sub columns, under the sub-column of sperm extract. That is the profile of Male Y.
Q: Explain to the court this sub column of non sperm extract, as well as sperm extract.
A: For seminal stains, the extraction process was used, which is known as differential extraction. This is because of the different population of cells in seminal stains and the aim of this differential extraction is to separate the
sperm cell as from the non sperm cell. The sperm cell will appear in sperm extract, and the non-sperm extract will appear in the non sperm extract. But in a real crime stain scene, you may not get that such ideal separation, but
generally they are there. You might see some of the non-sperm might appear in sperm extract, and, vice versa you might see some of the sperm cell appear in non-sperm extract.
Q: Is there any device or method that we used to distinguish between sperm and non sperm extract?
A: This separation is basically based on chemistry of the different cells population, where sperm head is very robust composition. They are very strong bonds on the sperm head and the normal digestion process would
normally may not be able to break the digest rupture of those bonds. And that, based on that chemistry, the extraction process was design to separate. The epitelius cells or so known as the sperm cells, will be first digested and
will appear in non sperm extract. After which a reagent known as DTP is added to the extraction of the remaining extraction mixture, which will be able to rupture the bond which will present on the membrane of the sperm head. And
that would be digestion of this fraction will give you the sperm extract. This is to aid in interpretation of the differential extraction.
Q: Do you have the method in interpreting it?
A: Yes, if the separation if clear and clean, then will be able to infer that the sperm cells which will appear in the sperm extract, would be the DNA profiles coming from the sperm cells. And the DNA profile from the non sperm
extract will be coming from the non-sperm cells.
Q: Explain to the court as to what does it means ‘how could there be a combination of two contributors here in this particular area; seminal stains from underwear A6 (b)?
A: The differential extraction was designed to separate the population of the sperm cells and non sperm cells. And this normally occurs say from the vagina swab, from the vagina cells, or it could be from the rectum, cells
from the rectal wall, and the presence of any sperm cells, but if the population are all sperm cells, the differential extraction would not really distinguish the cells population, but the observation from experience with the seminal stain,
would indicate that the dominant contributor would shown up in both sperm extract, as well as non-sperm extract, whereas the minor contributor is normally a reflected or observed only in the non sperm extract.
Q: Which one is the dominant contributor?
A: Looking at the result from A6(b) spot, it would appear that Male Y is the dominant contributor here, because his DNA allele is reflected both in the non sperm extract as well as sperm extract. Where DNA from B10, his
allele only shown in non-sperm extract, which is less dominant.
Q: Your finding number 3, page 3 of your report?
A: [read] para iii.
Q: Do you have any explanation on that matter, why there is no DNA profile indicated from Swab B2? What could be the reason?
A: Could be because of no DNA, or DNA from that region is degraded.
Q: You mentioned about it could be either be the cause of degradation. At this juncture perhaps, can you please explain to the court, what happen if there is the occurrence of degradation to the sample?
A: When degradation takes place, it means, the DNA has been destroyed, and no DNA profile would be obtained.
Q: There is DNA profile obtained, that means, there is no degradation that took place?
A: There might be some slight degradation, but the damage is not substation enough to destroy entirely the DNA.
Q: Can you proceed Dr. Seah with your next indication?
A: [read para iv]
Q: Can you please cross refer to your appendix again?
A: Page ii of Appendix 1. Third column, swab B5 (read and explain).
Q: Move to the next loci, D21S11, which one belongs to the donor of B10, as well as Male Y and the 3rd contributor?
A: There’s no indication of the 3rd individual of the second locus, but it is maybe because 3rd individual may have common allies with B10 and Male Y.
Q: Which locus that has the 3 contributors?
A: CSF1PO [explain] allele 10 not accounted for, and locus TH01 [explain] which also indicates 3 alleles, [6,7,9]. So there is allele 6 which is not accounted for. And next D13S317. In which allele 14 which was not attributed
for. Next locus, D16S539, allele 9 not attributed for. Next, D2S1338. 24: allele drop out.
Q: There is a possibility that there is allele drop out. What is allele dropout?
A: This is the phenomenon which the expected allele is not observed. That could happen because of insufficient template, or during the amplification process, or when there was preferential amplification, where other allele will
differentially amplified, which mass up this other allele, and therefore cannot be identified.
Q: But you still can identify that there is still contributor B10, Male Y and the 3rd individual?
A: Yes
Q: Can you please explain D2S1338?
A: Yes. Drop out in allele 24, which leaves allele 19 unattributed for. And next locus D19S433 [explain], which leaves allele 12 not attributed for. And then vWA [explain], which leaves allele 19 unattributed for.
Q: These are the loci which you can identified B10, Male Y and the other contributor?
A: Yes
Q: The amelogenin will indicate the gender of the contributor, and XY will indicate the Male Y contributor?
A: Yes
Q: You said again that the swab from B5, you identified it as the non sperm extract. What could that mean?
A: The fact that the DNA appears in the non sperm extract it could mean the cells population were non-sperm cells., probably where the degradation tools play a broader factor in differential extraction. Sometimes the
degradation was when they are sufficiently degraded, they might be not digested in the sperm cells. They might be digested by first process of digestion.
Q: That possibly means also, could there a possibility that it comes from a contact DNA?
A: it is likely; as for the extra DNA as we can see in B5, it could have been a contaminated DNA.
Q: Perhaps you could explain to the court what does this means, how could there be 3 Male contributors to this DNA profile?
A: Many possibility because B5 as labeled on the container, and on plastic receptacles as perianal swab. I’m not a medical expert, but perianal region would exposed to the exterior, area of the anus, that might come into
contact with exterior. That extra DNA could be contaminant from the exposure through the exterior.
Q: The examples from the contaminated area?
A: My answer will be speculative YA.
RK: She shouldn’t answer that question. Because it is speculative, she said it herself.
MY: This is just like when you cross examine the doctor with regard to the injury.
YA: But the problem is when she said that she could be speculative, because we cannot take speculative answer.
MY: Maybe we can paraphrase the question. it is nothing offensive about it because witness are asked the question throughout the times.
YA: I’m going to allow the question, but as to weight, you can submit it later (to defence).
Q: Perhaps you can proceed or give example of what you said factor of contaminated DNA?
A: Perhaps could happen because he sit on the toilet seats or whatever [] items.
Q: This is the contact DNA?
A: DNA which are present to contact.
Q: You can proceed now with your next indication and cross refer to your appendix of B7.
A: The v) indication (read). In the appendix, it is on the last column, labeled Mohd Saiful Bukhari Azlan. {read and explain).
Q: The sperm extact of Male Y can be found in all STR locus?
A: Yes.
Q: And you affirm Male Y is the dominant contributor?
A: Yes.
Q: Are you assisted by any method in reading this examination?
A: Yes, based on study which conducted by other researchers on the seminal stain, and also based on the experience working with seminal stain. The interpretation was read through my superior, the conclusion of this DNA
profile.
Q: Is there a system where you call electropherogram involved here?
A: Yes, all DNA profile was read out in an electropherogram, the output of genetic analyzer, and this number extracted actually from electropherogram.
Q: The allele, the number?
A: Yes
Q: Perhaps at this juncture, we have served this at the defence as well earlier, and I will ask later as to how this thing should be read together. May I ask this witness whether this is the electropherogram and tender in court?
Is this electropherogram are chart that was produced in your examination?
A: Yes, laboratory number 6334/08-0 and 2
Q: This were the graphs that you read?
A: Yes.
Q: May we have this documents..
RK: May we have a look at this document, to compare?
NB: Before my learned friend affirms to that, can I asked a little bit on the witness a little bit more on the electropherogram?
YA: Yes, I think there is no problem to that.
Q: Can you explain a little bit more on the electropherogram?
A: This electropherogram is the signals which are detected on the machine are converted or digitize in the format of an electropherogram and that profile is from software which was used to analyze called Gene Mapper.
Q: The graphs? It is produced by software?
A: Yes.
Q: Who is in charge of this software?
A: The software is patented and come with a machine, installed together with Genetic Analyzer, product of ABI, and the controls are carried out to ensure that the electropherogram is reliable, by the trained engineers, applied
bio system. He carried out annual checks of the machine, to ensure that the performance is reliable
Q: So, there is a quality control of the machine, done in your laboratory?
A: On the performance of the machine.
Q: As far as you concerned, it was performing in its ordinary..(tak sempat habis soalan)
RK: We’ve been quite patient, there’s been a lot of leading question. As far as we can help it, we don’t mind but certain part of it would be important in submission later.
YA: Please avoid from leading the witness, DPP.
Q: The quality control is in the form of this product? Elaborate on that?
A: Each analytical run on the machine, is carried out in tendon of the quality control, they had printed that out in compilation, which was the positive control which was read out as expected. And negative control which should
not give out any DNA profile and also a reagent blank is the control which was carried out together with the test sample right from the start of the analysis, meaning right from the extraction process. Because of the analytical run,
the reagent blank is actually does not contain DNA. It will contain all the reagent which was used of the sample during the DNA analyisis, and again , that reagent black would if all the processes are in place, it would not show any
DNA, it means there is no DNA contributed during the analysis.
Q: Perhaps to assist the court, you can give us the example of how you cross refers this electropherogram, with your Appendix, just one or two locus perhaps to show and assist the court.
The defence is discussing and comparing the electropherogram.
YA: You just want to compare it right? Why don’t we just continue, and you compare it later.
MY and SN quarrelling.
MY: I did not see your copy.
SN: Not take a very long time. 10 minutes will do. This is too many things for us to look out.
YA: Ok, compare now.
NB: May we just proceed to another finding? Just another two more.
SN: We also want to listen.
Q: []
SN: My lord, we have been given 72 pages here. We need to sort out this first.
YA: You have been given extra?
NB: What the defence has now is the electropherogram of 2 chemists. Dr. Seah’s and Dr. Aidora, she is the one that we will call after Dr. Seah.
YA: The issue is the 52 copies you received right? The fact that you received more is immaterial. But you want to check whether it is right or not lah?
SN: We need to go through.
YA: Stand down for a while. But the problem is, everybody will go missing.
As I said, forget about the extra copy that you received. You kena tengok sama ada dia boleh terima atau tak. So, stand down for a while
[3.35 p.m.] Stand down.
[4.04 p.m.] Pihak-pihak masuk ke Kamar Hakim.
[4.11 p.m.] Pihak-pihak keluar dari Kamar Hakim.
[4.11 p.m.] Adjourned.
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